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Radar and Soviet Navy in WWII
Bruno Lotse: Good day: I have a question about Radar technology in WW2. I know that British had it, Germans had it, Americans and Japanese. How about Soviet Union though? Did the Soviet Navy have radars in WWII? In 1944 the Soviet Navy received a number of Lend-Lease war ships from Britain and US. Mainly they were obsolete destroyers of Clemson and Wickes class, so called ’Flushdeckers’ (WWI veterans). Yet there were some more or less modern ships like American light cruiser CL-5 Milwaukee, or patrol frigates of Tacoma class, or British MTBs Vosper. Question - whether those Lend-Lease ships were delivered with radar equipment which I am sure initially was there or whether radars were removed prior to delivery? You see, I’ve created a virtual Soviet WWII Navy for a sub simulator but have no idea whether those virtual Soviet ships should be with Radar and Radar detectors or not. Cheers, Bruno Lotse
Îòâåòîâ - 13
whiney: http://www.warships1.com/.../WNRussian_Radar_WWII.htm Redut-K - info is generally right summer 1941 used on «Molotov» cruiser (installed on spring 1941) lend-lease radars became more later English 286-Ì on 7 and 7u destroers after 1942 - 1944 (291 on pacific detroers)
Bruno Lotse: Thank you very much, whiney. Perfect, now my virtual WWII Soviet Fleet can steams full ahead with original Soviet radar systems on
Serg: To Bruno Lotse: Hello, As far as I know the English FC and SS radars were installed on most destroyers of projects 7 and 7u and leaders of Leningrad class only in 45. BB Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia had the same radars as well as a cruisers of Kirov class. P.S. Bruno Lotse writes: öèòàòà I’ve created a virtual Soviet WWII Navy for a sub simulator Is it a new sub simulator? ;-) If yes, please tell more details. respectfully, Serg
wi: Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòàQuestion - whether those Lend-Lease ships were delivered with radar equipment which I am sure initially was there or whether radars were removed prior to delivery? Lend-lease ships (including flush-deckers) were transferred to the Soviet Navy with the radar equipment. Crews were trained in operating this equipment.
Bruno Lotse: This one is not actually new. Mine is a heavily moded SilentHuner II. In the original Silent HunterII the WWII Soviet Navy is almost nonexistent (Type 07, Type7 Destroyers and Battleship Gangut). Then how about the Black Sea and sunny southern shores of the Arctic Ocean. So I decided create virtual Soviet Navy using models from Silent Hunter II per se and Pacific Aces. My Soviet PTs, DDs, DEs, CLs, cruisers and destroyers are actually a mixture of Japanese, British, US ships: PT Storozhevoy Norwegian PT Sleipner (What are proper names for Soviet Coast Guard ships in WWII?) DD type 07 (Bditel’nyi) model for Japanese Asashio DD type 7 (Besposhadnyi, Bezuprechnyi, Gordyi, Gromkiy, Rezvyi, Rezkiy etc) - Jap Kagero DD Novik (Artyom, Dzerjinskyi, Frunze, Engels etc.) Jap NCL Tenryu (well, at least three funnels and there were always disputes what Novik was - a heavy destroyer or a light cruiser) DD Prytkyi - US DE Rudderow in an attempt to simulate US Tacoma frigate DD Grad (Flushdecker) (Derzkiy, Doblestnyi, Druznyj, Dostoynyi etc) US later UK Clemson/Wickes (Town class) Grad - Gorod - Town -right? DE Kumach (Kumach, Ermark, Enissey, Tungus, Yarun, Taimyr etc.) Jap Etorofu (I know, there were no such Kumach DE yet something must be - right?) DE Bystryi (Bystryi, Azov, Amur) Norweigean TB Sleipner (pure invention) MS Ersh (Ersh, Karp, Semga, Som) Jap SW13 - again what are the proper names for Soviet minesweepers? CL Krasnyi Krym (Krasnyi Krym, Sevastopol, Kerch, Sevash) Jap Sendai (Just heard once about existence of Soviet Light Cruiser Krasnyi Krym. Do not know her family yet. Just invented the names.) CL Murmansk (former US CL Milwaukee) CL Cleveland CA Chapaev (Chapaev, Zhelezniakov, Frunze) Jap Furutaka CA Kirov (Kirov, Voroshilov) Jap Takao CA Maxim Gorkiy (Maxim Gorkiy, Molotov, Kaganovich, Kalinin) Jap Aoba BB Gangut (Gangut, Marat, Octiabrskaya Revolutsiya) US Texas BB Archangelsk - British Royal Sovereign Bomber IL-4 Jap Betty Shturmovik IL-2 - Jap Kate Fighter LA-5 Jap Zero A6M5 Recon plane - British Sea Otter Ahoy! Man all radar stations. Full ahead! There is a great forum for virtual submarines and DD skippers. Here it is. http://207.44.164.159/phpBB/index.php Hey, guys, I am sure you all be welcomed there! Bruno
whiney: Bruno Lotse russian fleet - destroers & large: noviks appears like classic english WW1 destroers, maybe arethusa class cruisers ... http://wunderwaffe.narod....agazine/MK/1998_04/05.htm http://wunderwaffe.narod....agazine/MK/1998_04/16.htm 7 and 7U was the same but 7 has boilers-boilers-turbines-turbines and 7U has boilers-turbines-boilers-turbines (dont know how to say this on English)and 2 funnels 7 7U Leningrad class leaders: here Tashkent leader (only one) - italian build here Krasnu Krym& Chervona Ukraina (Svrtlana class) Krasny Kavkaz - the same, but armed with 180mm 1-gun turrets. Chapaev CLs are post-war Pr.26&pr.26b almost the same type (Kirov, Voroshilov Maxim Gorkiy, Molotov, Kaganovich, Kalinin) - italian design Kerch - durins ww2 italian cruiser, soviet - after war. komintern 1901y build battleships sevastopol class il4 - 2-engine plane
Serg: Bruno Lotse: Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòàDD type 07 (Bditel’nyi) model for Japanese Asashio DD type 7 (Besposhadnyi, Bezuprechnyi, Gordyi, Gromkiy, Rezvyi, Rezkiy etc) - Jap Kagero DD Novik (Artyom, Dzerjinskyi, Frunze, Engels etc.) Jap NCL Tenryu (well, at least three funnels and there were always disputes what Novik was - a heavy destroyer or a light cruiser) DD Prytkyi - US DE Rudderow in an attempt to simulate US Tacoma frigate It is a mistake. In the USSR were only such classes of destroyers: 7(Gnevnyi) http://uboat.net/allies/w...ass.html?ID=249&navy=USSR 7u(Soobrazitel’ny’) http://uboat.net/allies/w...ass.html?ID=250&navy=USSR Leningrad (6) - large DDs or destroyer leaders. Had on one gun more than 7/7u (5 vs 4X5.1 inh) Taschkent (1) - probably one of the best destroyers of war, is similar to English LM. Novik class - heavy destroyers only for times of the WW1:-) 1300 t 4X4inh + 3X3 450 mm TA http://uboat.net/allies/w...ass.html?ID=252&navy=USSR Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòàDD Grad (Flushdecker) (Derzkiy, Doblestnyi, Druznyj, Dostoynyi etc) US later UK Clemson/Wickes (Town class) Grad - Gorod - Town -right? Yes, www.ww2pacific.com/lendussr.html Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòàCL Murmansk (former US CL Milwaukee) CL Cleveland ] Why Cleveland? I remember that in SH2 Omaha class available. Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòà CA Kirov (Kirov, Voroshilov) Jap Takao CA Maxim Gorkiy (Maxim Gorkiy, Molotov, Kaganovich, Kalinin) Jap Aoba Gorkiy’s class have better armor scheme and fire control systems. I.e. Kirov - Furutaka, Gorkiy - Aoba. For more information look thise link http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3 Bruno Lotse ïèøåò: öèòàòàBB Gangut (Gangut, Marat, Octiabrskaya Revolutsiya) US Texas Marat (lost 23 Sep, 1941, former Petropavlovsk), Oktiabrskaya Revolyucya (Gangut), both on Baltic. Parizhskaya Kommuna - Sevastopol 22.11.1929 - 18.01.1930 transfered to Black Sea Fleet. About names of the small ships I have no information, sorry. Serg
Bruno Lotse: Good day gents, I am very grateful for you comments. Having read them I refitted my virtual fleet and how it looks like now (big ships only): DD type 7 - US Sims DD type 7u - US Benson Sims - one funnel, Benson - two. In other respects at least visually they look very much alike they way type 7 and 7u used to. Right? DD Leader Leningrad and Leader Tashkent - US Porter. Porter was an American version of a leader class. Unfortunately I do not have analogous model of an Italian destroyer. DD Novik - French Adroit. Both have three funnels. British CL Aretusa looks like a bit of overkill - bow turrets with twin guns. Adroit also has two bow turrets but with a single gun per turret. CL Krasnyi Krym (Kr Kavkaz, Chervona Urkaina) Japanese CL Tenryu. Three funnels and also almost WW1 veteran. CL Murmansk. Serg says it should be US Omaha. So Omaha it is. CA Kirov - Furutaka CA Maxim Gorkiy - Aoba CA Komintern Japanese CL Kuma. BB Sevastopol Japanese Kongo. Well, not even close but something, something big should be in Sevastopol harbor to shoot back at 80cm German Dora. Right? What are your thoughts on this layout if any. Is it historically acceptable or something should be changed? Cheers, Bruno
whiney: Bruno Lotse 1) Kirov&Gorky& (all morern to 1940 russian cruisers) are the same, and the model must have 3 3gun turrets. 2)Leningrad class = Benson or Bristol 3)Tashkent = Allen M. Sumner 4)Kr Krym Kr Kavkaz = Tenryu 5)Chervona Urkaina = 4*1 big gun turret!!! or old-style furutaka???? 6) Novik - what oldest destroyer u have ??? Maybe English S-type .... Dora has rate of fire about 1 round per day..... and used only against coast bataries (12 in old guns in 2gun turrets) Aquracy of Dora was very poor, crew - about 1500, cost - wery high. It was not anti-ship gun, only land assoult.
Îëåã: whiney ïèøåò: öèòàòà4)Kr Krym Kr Kavkaz = Tenryu 5)Chervona Urkaina = 4*1 big gun turret!!! or old-style furutaka???? You are mistake. Chervona Ukraina and Krasniy Krym=Naka Krasniy Kavkaz-4x1-180/59 in turrets-??
Îëåã: Chervona Ukraina and Krasniy Krym http://www.battleships.spb.ru/0481/ukraina.html Krasniy Kavkaz http://www.battleships.spb.ru/0481/kavkaz.html Gorkiy (Kirov similar) http://www.battleships.spb.ru/0481/gorky.html Diferent Novik’s http://www.mlib.rost.ru/s.../1998_destr/mk2000-06.htm
Bruno Lotse: Good day gents, What do you think about this layout. DD Project 7 - US Sims DD Project 7u - US Benson Sims and Benson looks the same. The only difference is the number of funnels - the way it used to be with Project 7 and Project 7u DD Novik - French Adroit. Alas, I do not have a model for a British tree-funnel destroyer like Class S. I have Classes A,B,D,E,F,V,W which are either one or two-funnel ships. Leader Leningrad - US Porter (also Leader). DD Benson is used for Project 7u and I do not have a model for DD Bristol. Leader Tashkent - US Sumner CL Komintern - Japanese CL Tenryu CL Krasnyi Krym (Chervony Urkaina) Jap CL Kuma. I have no model for CL Naka. CL Krasnyi Kavkaz - CL Nagara CA Kirov, Slava, Voroshilov, Maksim Gorkiy - US CA Portland. How about that? BB Sevastopol (Gangut, Petropavlovsk) US Texas. Re: ’Dora has rate of fire about 1 round per day...’ So, what was that ? Dora? or Dura? Thanks for your insight, Bruno P.S. How about submarines? Can we make the same mix and match job to create Soviet submarine fleet in WW2? I have models for US, British, German, Italian, Japanese and Dutch subs. Do not have Soviet ’Schukas’ yet.
whiney: ’bout Sevastopol BBs: maybe Jap Iso-Fuso be better?? dora shooted at Sevastopol 48 shells total. Useless thing. 600mm «Karl» howitzer (6th image on link) was more effective. Soviet subs: schuka
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